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July 15th, 2004


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12:41 pm - Just submitted the following articles to OL:
"ADF Vs. Wicca" (SundaySundaySunday! A Rumble in the Jungle! Bring the children! Kids Tickets in the Pit only $24!)

"Representing ADF in Public" (or: How Not To Be a Dork)

"Eris is Coming for Tea" (Hopefully I didn't confuse this with my erotic story, "Eris is Cumming for Mr. T")

"Discordia's Apple" (Which might not fit at all)

"Creating the Desire for Worship" (Inspired by my favourite Old Articulator)

Keep in mind that what I submitted to Oak Leaves are likely to be differently edited.

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Man, Billy Clyde so wasn't insane. . .

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By the way, does anyone know any congregations in Columbus or the surrounding area that speak in tongues or do snake handling? Or do faith healing? I really want to see one of those services.
Current Mood: awake
Current Music: "The Weather is Here (I Wish You Were Beautiful)", -JB

(21 comments Leave a comment)

Comments:


From:moonversion
Date:July 15th, 2004 09:45 am (UTC)
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I often speak in tongues while doing snake handling; but I don't live in Ohio and I'm not a congregation. :P
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 15th, 2004 09:49 am (UTC)
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If I find one to attend while you're in OH, would you like to go?
From:moonversion
Date:July 15th, 2004 09:54 am (UTC)
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You really want to scare the locals don't you? ;D

We should do a road trip to the south to see one.
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 15th, 2004 09:58 am (UTC)
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Damn skippy!

"And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover" (Mark 16:17-18)
From:tanrinia
Date:July 15th, 2004 12:15 pm (UTC)
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I WOULD!

i love snakes :)

hm...lemme ask around...i may know someone who knows someone...
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 15th, 2004 12:21 pm (UTC)
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K. There is (or was) apparently one in Columbus at one time, according to the Encyclopedia of American Religions. What we're looking for is some variation on "Church of God", most likely something like "Chuch of God of Signs Following".

Failing that, I'm calling all the "Churches of God" in the phone book and asking, "Excuse me, do you guys handle snakes, or know where I can find a church that does?"
From:tanrinia
Date:July 15th, 2004 12:22 pm (UTC)
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oh gods...you MUST tape said conversations....

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From:tlachtga
Date:July 15th, 2004 09:54 am (UTC)
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Hopefully I didn't confuse this with my erotic story, "Eris is Cumming for Mr. T"

Now THAT'S a story I wanna read!
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From:hearthstone
Date:July 15th, 2004 10:02 am (UTC)
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I'm not in the Columbus area (duh), but when I was in college (in Mississippi) I went home with a friend for Easter break.

While we were there, we went to two Easter services--one being an Easter eve service at her family's Baptist church (and at which she "got saved" for at least the second time, guess the first one didn't take--but that's another topic of discussion :)). Weird but not outside the bounds of reality.

The next day we went to her aunt's Pentecostal church, a great contrast to the shiny new huge Baptist church we'd been to the previous day, not only in that it was small and a bit shabby (which I actually took as a sign of sincerity). They had Sunday School for grownups (I guess this isn't uncommon but it was the first I'd heard of it). And they spoke in tongues. They weren't rolling in the aisles or anything, just talking gibberish, but I certainly knew exactly where the door was in relation to me while all that was going on.

So I'd say, check out the Pentecostals, at least for the tongues. You might get lucky.
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From:rfunk
Date:July 15th, 2004 10:24 am (UTC)

Billy Clyde?

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Who's Billy Clyde?
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 15th, 2004 10:38 am (UTC)

Re: Billy Clyde?

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Karen might know, as she watches soaps.

Billy Clyde was a sleazy character on the ABC soap opera "All My Children." Billy Clyde's lifelong dream was to make enough money to one day escape to the islands of the Carribbean.

(from one of the FAQ's at CoBO
From:tanrinia
Date:July 15th, 2004 12:21 pm (UTC)

minor quibble

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in the wicca v. adf article (which isn't nearly as much fun as i had hoped, but then i was hoping for pro-wrestling :D ) you say something about ADF not having dogma (can't remember exact quote).

for religion to exist it must have dogma, i.e. "a doctrine or system of doctrine .. as true and necessary of belief" (funk and wagnalls standard dictionary). ADF rites believe we must open gates, we must make offerings, all sorts of things.

now, ADF is a lot less picky about these things than other religions. you don't get excommunicated from ADF if you DON'T do these things, or whatever. doesn't mean they don't exist.

hehehe...one could say even, that ADF is less dogmatic about it :D :D :D

(now i'm giggling....)
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 15th, 2004 12:30 pm (UTC)

Re: minor quibble

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Actually, there are three Dogmas in ADF.

1) The Dogma of Archdruidic faliability (i.e. the Archdruid is as falliable as you and will make mistakes)

2) No more Dogma.

3) No, we really mean it. No more Dogma.

Thus speaketh Isaac, at Wellspring.

But you don't have to believe any of that stuff. Rather, it's a shared group-mind thing that can be chucked out of the ritual if you want. You can't go chucking all of it, because then it's no longer an ADF rite, but you can chuck stuff at random.

And we have no "true and necessary beliefs". At least, none that I know of.

Oh, and Discordianism doesn't have Dogma. It has Catma.
From:tanrinia
Date:July 15th, 2004 12:34 pm (UTC)

Re: minor quibble

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well, i dunno...i think there are the ones you spell out in the article itself. or the ones that are there in generic paganism (pre christian deities, magick works but only if it has a k at the end, etc.) i think they're more generic than the jerusalem 3, but i respectfully disagree with the arch-dude emeritus :)

without it, we're just a bunch of half nakked pseudo hippies getting drunk and drumming and dancing in the woods....

wait.....
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 15th, 2004 02:55 pm (UTC)

Re: minor quibble

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Haha. I had to spell something out in the article :) Otherwise I would have ended up with the most wishy-washy article ever :)

"Well, sometimes we do this, but not always". . .
From:moonversion
Date:July 15th, 2004 12:34 pm (UTC)

Re: minor quibble

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No, no. It's truckma... not quite bikema but bigger than carma.
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From:nontacitare
Date:July 15th, 2004 07:37 pm (UTC)
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Wonderful essays. Your Wicca vs. ADF was perfect, and I seem to be learning a lot more about Discordianism these days.
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 16th, 2004 12:19 pm (UTC)
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Perfect? Wow, thanks. :)

Everyone should learn about Our Lady. They should teach the Principia in schools.
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From:wishesofastar
Date:July 16th, 2004 11:11 am (UTC)
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Mike, I don't know of any around here. I used to go to Christian Assembly in Greenville, PA, and they spoke in tongues and did faith healings. By the way, I fully accept the sacrality of these experiences. Personally I think it's silly to accept that followers of Vodoun are ridden by the loa, but when a Pentecostal Christian speaks in tongues, they're just talking gibberish. Maybe it's just me, though.
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From:chronarchy
Date:July 16th, 2004 11:45 am (UTC)
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I don't know of any around here.

If I find one, do you want to go, too?

Personally I think it's silly to accept that followers of Vodoun are ridden by the loa, but when a Pentecostal Christian speaks in tongues, they're just talking gibberish.

Why? There isn't any reason to automoatically assume that anyone is having a valid religious experience.

Besides, I believe that my religion is right, and thus generally disblieve in any other religion.

That does't make them wrong. Doesn't even make them less important. Heck, they might just be right as well. How should I know? It doesn't impact me.

I'd just really like to see this. Why? Because it's true for them. And that's what makes it cool.
From:ninian_dp
Date:July 16th, 2004 06:21 pm (UTC)
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Why? There isn't any reason to automoatically assume that anyone is having a valid religious experience.

Becuase there are certain things that will happen if someone who speaks in tongues is legitimately speaking in tongues; namely, someone else with stand up and interpret what the speaker has said. St. Paul advises those who are inclined to "fake it" to think twice.

See this for more.

The vast majority of people who're speaking in tongues are faking it; A colleague of mine (a Pentacostal minister) invited me to his church to discreetly observe a husband-wife pair who alternately spoke in tongues and interpreted for each other. I eventually figured out she was saying "Burrito Grande, Nacho Supreme, Jalepenos, Apple Bannana" interspersed with random words in Koine Greek, Mesoretic Hebrew, and Modern Standard Arabic. I also heard about a man who prophesied in Latin (despite being nearly illiterate). A lawyer happened to be attending from out of town and translated the message.

As for snake handlers... those are mostly deep south things. My former bishop once attended such a church in West Virginia; it generally takes them a month or so before they'll bring out the snakes in most places, because they want to make sure you're not a cop.

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