Wow. I approve wholeheartedly.

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Thanks. It felt really good to make them.

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Would this be the same Chief Bard that when I sent my money off to join the Bardic Guild, never once onctacted me in any way? Big damn waste of money.

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The very same. And I'm very sorry that you never got contacted.

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wow. i don't think i've ever seen you release your inner bitch! (or call someone else a bitch, for that matter.) i'm torn between being amused and being impressed.

oh, and i really like the shirt with the list of people who may not write chants. :)

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Hehe. It was fun to write :) And very cathartic, I might add.

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You know, Eris told me that she thought it was pretty funny to watch you get your panties in a bunch, over the spastic spouting of a greyface.

Of course, she said the same thing about me a couple months ago.....

Damn her.

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Haha. Greyface she certainly was. And spastic.

And Eris really, really likes to see people like you and me go crazy like that :)

I agree. Damn her.

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Consider it "withdrawn permission", then. :)

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love the shirts. and i'm spiteful enough to ponder sending one to her for yule. :)

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Hehe. She probably wouldn't understand it.

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So, the person asked you not to tell anyone they had said what they said? That's kind of an admission of either a non-standard opinion or of just being wrong, right there!

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After her initial message, where she said she was still trying to decide whether to be "more offended, revolted, angered or simply disgusted", I told her I'd be "happy to discuss. The list [ADF-Liturgists] may also be."

Her exact words were as follows:

I do not wish to discuss this on an open list.

The bold was hers, too.

I took this as absolute terror that I'd manage to argue my side better than she could. Strange thing for a "bard" to be afraid of.

So, really, she never actually asked me to keep it private, really. Just not to discuss it on an open ADF list.

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Funny is a really, really sad kind of way.

I thought the whole point of being in a high ADF position was to help the community, not to forward your own "specialness" and get horribly horribly offended when someone has a different view.

Well, can't say I'm sorry she's gone even though I never really had much contact with her directly.

This leads back to my favorite quote (and one that has pissed off many an "elder")

"Age does not equal wisdom."

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ADF appears to have gotten rid of most of the dorks in high towers, so far as I can tell.

I'm not going to claim that I'm wise, by anyone's idea of "wisdom". But to object to my attempts to write a chant purely because I was 15 years old when she became "Chief Bard" or whatever was ridiculous.

And yes, she did try to put me down by telling me when she was appointed Chief Bard of ADF and asking "when you were HOW old??" (emphasis her's).

Besides, pulling rank doesn't impress me, and I never saw an email from her that didn't pull rank.

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It was bothering me a lot last night for some reason. I'm not at all sure why. In the end, I had to write it in order to get it out.

It felt like something that I had to get out. It felt like it was festering.

My initial reaction to her contacting me was not the ease I'd like to think it was. I did what I'm good at: I fell back to a rational, unemotional response.

The reaction was really, "Oh damn. I've pissed off the chief bard of ADF and three (unnamed) ranked bards, and now I have to defend my actions." And I didn't know how to do it. And I was scared. Partly because she pulled rank. Partly because at the time I was maybe a bit worried. Partly because even though I knew for a fact that I was writing something that could achieve the same aim as anything she'd ever written, I was going to have to prove that.

I didn't name her initially because I was scared. And that's what nagged at me.

you're still bringing it up long past the time when she ceased to have relevance to anyone but you

Well, I write things on LJ that have relevance to me, regardless of their relevance to others. I did, however, tone it down a lot from the original thing I wrote last night, simply because I know so many people read this thing. I still have it copied here, though, because it makes me feel really, really good to read it. But that post was petty. It was a kid shouting insults and throwing a fit.

This one is closer to good, clean purging (though I'm willing to wager it isn't perfect, and you're probably right about the perception).

And with the writing of this thing (and the responses to various replies above), I think I've blown myself out about it, though. It's gone back to being amusing, not hurtful. I'll still snicker and tell people that "I'm too young to write chants," I'm sure.

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Yup, that's when I pull out the Bad Religion song Hooray For Me" ("... and fuck you!").

Seems to me that a "fuck you" response is not necessarily belligerent at all though. It's just realizing that some people's opinions and judgements just don't matter as much as they think.

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That woman was the reason I never did much with the Bardic Guild. Maybe I'll get active there when school's done & I have more time ( how cool would it be to have Druid rock bands in the Bardic Guild?) I'm amused by the list of people who can't write chants.

Incidentally, I was surprised then & am stll surprised at how afraid you were to name her. But then, I don't understand having a fear of figures of power anyway unless they physically put you in danger. Could be that "power" is one of those concepts that doesn't quite register in my brain as a solid, like "time" or "money". But you should have blown the lid off that when it happened. Not in a bitchy way but in a public way-- Post to Liturgist, crosspost to Bards "In a conversation I had offlist with the ArdBard, the idea of only people with proper training in the bardic arts or of a certain age should be allowed to write chants was brought up. Personally, I think Awen can strike anyone at anytime & who are we to stand in the way of divine inspiration? But I understand that some might want more structure. I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on this."

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how cool would it be to have Druid rock bands in the Bardic Guild?

Okay, that would be way cool!

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I consider you far too old to write chants. :-P

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Catharsis and purging are wonderful things. I hope you feel a lot better now, having learned a valuable lesson from the experience. I know I do for your sake. I should probably do something similar, though I'm not sure I'm ready. I can PROMISE you that the wrongs I suffered from that woman and her husband make yours pale in comparison. Most folks never heard the half of it, and no one (besides me) knows the whole of it. All I can say is good fucking riddance.

I can't tell you how relieved I am that in the past couple years folks in ADF finally stood up to the bullies and bitches, telling them that if they can't play nice, they can bloody well take their ball and go home. I have been through some horrific experiences over the past decade involving (former) members of ADF. While I now accept that "that which does not destroy us only makes us stronger," I admit, I still have lingering scars that came not from what the bullies did or said, but what my colleagues, by their silence, tacitly condoned. Maybe those wounds go even deeper...

Thanks for making me think about this. There be healing this way, methinks.

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I admit, I still have lingering scars that came not from what the bullies did or said, but what my colleagues, by their silence, tacitly condoned. Maybe those wounds go even deeper...

That is the worst part by far. "Silence means agreement" -- if no one tells you that they don't agree, then as far as you know they do agree & everyone thinks you are the horrible human being you've just been told you are. Destroys your self-confidence. And feels like a betrayal, too.

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Based on my experiences with Pagan bullies of the past year, I've adopted the following philosophy, "I won't lie, or say anything behind your back I won't say to your face, but it's not my responsibility to keep your secrets." Secrecy is toxic in the Pagan community, and leads to a lot of emotional wounds. I've also gotten far more cautious about agreeing to keep things in confidence, so I'm not bound to silence when someone needs to speak up.

As to knowing the line between speaking up to prevent an injustice, venting emotionally, and just being vindictive - well, I'm still working on that one. ;-)

It still makes no sense to me that one needs to be a certain age or a certain rank to speak to the Gods, through chanting or any other means. But then, acting as an equal to my betters the elders is what got me in trouble in the first place.

(By the way, my experiences were not with ADF. There was just something in the air in the greater Pagan community last year.)

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