Could you re-do the poll to indicate more of a Top Three kind of approach? I think single-mindedness might be one of the biggest dangers of all.

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I dunno. I rather prefer this setup.

Besides, with nearly 200 people on my f-list, I usually don't have any trouble finding a top three. Or top five. Or anything else, really.

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TOPY's wisdom is... well. wise, I guess. But I have noticed a tendency in their magical journals to perhaps go too far. Balance is needed.

Oh, and whats the deal with containment?

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Mostly, I'm curious about how many people think that should be a primary concern when I do these things. No one has really *asked* me to contain, but I figured that it was worth looking into.

I agree, though, on TOPY sometimes going a bit too far, and that balance is something very useful. I'm approaching this thing very cautiously, and the more I think about it, the more complicated it becomes. Had I jumped into it already (certainly a possibility at this point, as I have everything I need to make that jump), I think it would have been a bad idea.

Then again, I think that such a jump could also be very beneficial, so I'm keeping that open as an option, even if it is unlikely that I will take that route.

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It may or may not be. I am very concerned about affecting others with this particular working, I admit. In fact, the affect on others, if I judge it to be sufficient enough ("enough" being undefined), may be a very good reason to pull the plug on this working.

I think that simply writing it out entirely will provide a reasonable amount of "fixing".

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we have a motto in our Grove (yeah, I know, we have a bunch of 'em)
"Not my ass-whupping"

many of us have gone through periods we affectionatly refer to as "the watusi" and sometimes the flailing and thrashing can whisk others in or splatter on their shoes. Thus was our mantra created. Every so often, usually in ritual when someone is making some oath that we can all see is gonna sign them up for a round of watusi, we will all lovingly remind the gods and spirits and anything else listening in that, "It ain't my ass-whuppin'!"

Sounds like your firends might need to borrow that.

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It may be a good thing for them to learn, yeah. I could be more careful, too :)

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duly borrowed :D

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I say, do what needs to be done ... which will probably include personal growth. It's not like that's ever a bad thing.
...
I need to make a servitor or two.

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*nods* That's not, you're right. Other results, who knows. . . Might be, might not.

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Eris' mother? That would be my lady Nyx, correct? What did she have to say?

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She was stuffing her face with pizza, when I saw her. Details are forthcoming. It was at Tommy's, just north of Lane at Neil Ave.

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I also don't like that there is only one choice per person. I think it was a balance of three: personal growth, personal safety, and doing what needs to be done. You do not necessarily have to uphold one at the expense of another.

Because I am somewhat familiar with this working, I have a few thoughts. First off, you are going to do it regardless of what these poll results say. If people seem more concerned about its effect on them than you were hoping, you will incorporate this into your work. Surely you can figure out where these worries fit along the diagram...?

Secondly, its effect will likely be very different on those who understand where you are coming from and those who do not. I don't know if KNOWING what you are doing will make it easier or more difficult -- some people may not notice anything, but if their attention is drawn to this they may be LOOKING for clues and thus open doors that actually were not meant to be involved at all. And this is assuming that the results manifest themselves in you in a way that is dramatic or drastic, which they will inevitably for you but not necessarily for others. After all, personal realms are always very different from the inside than out. And you are not really CHANGING anything... you are separating things. No aspect of you will be removed entirely, simply isolated or configured differently. So the impact on you should not be overwhelming to others. You are not going to LOSE anything. If you do it right.

I am concerned about your safety because of several factors. If you want me to switch them to e-mail because you don't want me babble my warnings / counters to those warnings on here, just let me know. I have a few ideas, all of which are pretty crappy, but some of which may in turn generate better ideas from your side. You're the experienced chaote, not me... but that may mean I can somehow be helpful after all. :P

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I wasn't as familiar with this working yesterday as I am today. This working is going to be very, very difficult, if it gets done. Coming out of it, potentially, could be impossible. In which case, of course, we'll call it a "success" on the front of Chaos Magic. It just won't be much of a personal success, I suppose.

If I do this, though, it'll be hard not to notice. That's the largest problem with it.

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Well, tomorrow you'll be even more familiar with it than today, so perhaps an avenue will present itself to you that simply hasn't yet.

I don't know. Would you mind telling an inquiring (*cough NOSY cough*) friend more about what you've figured out sometime?

Remember, people noticing it is not necessarily a problem... of course, now they might KNOW it's the result of magic, which is a bit of shame, but then again, maybe not. It's just a matter of if them "noticing" it entails their relationships with you being changed against their will or without warning, or if them "noticing" it simply means them sensing a change in your personal behaviour or something like that.

Che, I suppose it's frankly just a difficult choice. Most of ignorant little me says you need to do it and it's important that you do it WITHOUT considering how other people will react, because your ability to do it without outside influence is utterly tantamount. Last time I talked to you, YOU told me YOU would be making the decisions as opposed to a deity, etc. It sounds now like you are in danger of inadvertantly giving that control to other people. If you are making too many allowances and allowing too many alternate judgments in, how will you know what goes where?

But, of course, the thing is sharing that control is not necessarily bad. I mean, the thing that worries me most is, what if YOU don't really know which one goes where? Your actions will obviously be tainted (and simultaneously clarified) by your personal experiences, so outside considerations would both clean and stain what you are doing. Are you confident that you can separate things clearly without accidentally putting something that could be good (but whose potential good you do not yet see) somewhere where it should not go?

I suppose the other thing I wonder about is, is it for all practical intents and purposes irreversible? And, in creating black and white out of grey in some areas, do you do it in all? Maybe you could start it in small segments. But then, I don't know what you've worked out, so maybe that wouldn't work.

I derno. Like I said, most of me say that you need to do it (probably the part of me that could use a degree of that myself) but the rest of me wants to know more about it first. :x

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There will be a very long LJ update on Monday that will explain the cosmology. It's not like it's a secret, it's just freakin' difficult to explain.

The difficulty with making decisions is that this particular working involves a *lot* of darkness, and one man has already failed to come out of it bearing the promised shards.

And no, I'm not at all confident that I can tell the luminous from the base.

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Haha, good luck explaining it without sounding either cracked out, fluffy, or too smart for us. But then, you've done some pretty funky stuff in the past, so I'm sure people will be able to figure it out.

And I don't know what to tell you about the difficulty... there will be lots. And if you don't know how to swim in it already, you'll either have to learn or drown.

Like that would stop you.

Maybe you should share your control with a deity, guide, person, etc, over what should fall and what should remain in the light?

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I don't know if I can do this and be Pagan at the time. That's another issue. So it's entirely possible that I won't have any Patrons with me.

Though it's an issue I'll avoid if it's possible.

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I realize the paradigm isn't pagan, so I wasn't implying a pagan god. I mean, the Morrigan is good for things like that (but you don't like her :P) and as far as actual judgment calls I could see Esus being extremely comforting and helpful, but I meant more of some other form of spirit that would fit that paradigm, like Yawheh (or IAO, because I'm a fan...?) After all, man was not in charge of those decisions to begin with. God knew what was bad and what was good.

The question is, how deeply do you trust the entities you work with in other paradigms? I'd say you'd need to trust in him completely in order for his choices to carry any weight, but then, once you step OUT Of that paradigm, any changes made will remain, so you have to trust that they will be good ones even outside that paradigm. Which is tricky-ass business.

Maybe you should just sacrifice a white cock raised by a first-born black mule who ate nothing but candied scarabs all its life and pour oil on a young virgin boy beforehand, just in case. :P

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When I work in other paradigms, there is no reason not to trust these entities. YHVH is just as reliable when I'm being a Jewish mystic as Esus is when I'm being Pagan.

Besides, things like Angels are pretty predictable.

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Maybe you should just sacrifice a white cock raised by a first-born black mule who ate nothing but candied scarabs all its life and pour oil on a young virgin boy beforehand, just in case.

Are we talking about chronarchy's working or your fantasies?

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I say jump.

You appear, to me, to have spent lots of time working on your Belief System, your rituals, your tools etc. Either those things are in place and useful to you, or their not... While I might recommend a quick safty check, I think you may need to jump and trust your training.

Besides, whats the worst that could happen? You might go crazy and start talking about having old greek goddesses paying you visits.

;-)

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PS: I recommend:

1) Watchful Servitor to keep you somewhat safe.
2) Someone on hand to lead you through banishing rituals if things get out of hand.

I had one experience with an invocation where the person simply couldn't get back to ground and we walked him through the LBRP and Kabbalistic Cross over and over untill he could get back and perform it himself. Dunno if it matters or not, but it seemed useful that time.

Otherwise, consider that the Psychonaut sometime appears best suited to dive in and trust their equipment. So check the regulator, make sure you have a full tank of oxygen, clear your mask and dive.

Ratatosk, Squirrel of Discord

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duly noted. Thanks.

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There are worse things. You'll see what I mean when I write up the cosmology around this working.

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Hehe. Here's hoping no hurt will occur. In nay way. Safety is important. . . But then, it must be balanced by an ability to push past boundaries, too.

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The problem is, as I plan it, it's becoming more and more clear just how dangerous it is to me personally, and my mental health in particular.

While I admit that it's quite terrifying to think about the implications of it, the possibilities and potential for growth are simply amazing.

Most major life changes have the potential to really tear you apart. The bigger the potential disaster, the bigger the potential payoff. Have some faith in yourself & do wht you need to. I've little doubt you'll get through it. Although if it happens that you go a bit nuts you'll discover that being a little crazy isn't so bad. ;-)

I'd also cross "Getting back what has been lost" off your list. Life doesn't work that way. You lost it for a reason, you should be looking for what's meant to take it's place. Trying to go back is a good way to just end up stuck.

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Ah, but this chaos working is all about that which is lost.

However, life does sometimes work that way. Sometimes, we get lost, and we just need to find our way out.

But this is also about finding things that should have been part of me a long time ago, and are terribly lost. It's difficult to explain, I suppose.

If it helps any, this whole working is based off the life of a Manic-Depressive, failed Messiah.

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