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December 29th, 2005


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03:11 pm - Silly Vedics . . . paps are for kids!
So I'm reading through the Vedas, and I come across this nifty Sacrifice of Five Oblations that I'd like to work up into a ritual. The problem is, I don't have quite enough background to fully understand it. The main problem (and it's a big one) is understanding what exactly the oblations are:

fried grain
mush
the pap
the cake
the milk mess

What kind of grain? What sort of mush? Wtf is pap? What kind of cake? Milk is usually messy, but what's special about this?

I think I can figure out the rest of it, but these five oblations are obviously vital. . . but no instruction is given in context to make 'em.

So, it looks like I'm off to the beginning of the Vedas to read straight through. . . yippee-kai-yai-ay, and all that.

   He who knows the sacrifice with the five oblations propsers with the sacrifice of five oblations.

Yeah, I could live with prospering.
Current Mood: amusedamused
Current Music: "Up On the Housetop", -JB
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Comments:


From:shizukagozen
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:28 pm (UTC)
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You could always do it the Hindu way, just do it in your mind and pretend you did it.
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:37 pm (UTC)
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I thought about a websearch, but was afraid of what I might find. I think that reading the Vedas is a bit better bet :)
From:shizukagozen
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:38 pm (UTC)
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Actually read? What are you thinking?!
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:42 pm (UTC)
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I'm sorry. It will never happen again.

I have learned my lesson. I will now devote my life to Krishna and shave my head into a topknot!
From:shizukagozen
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:44 pm (UTC)
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The last time we were in the airport there were Krsnas. They had the typical hair style but were wearing business suits. They still went after the college kids who looked like hippies. The hippies turned them down.

I don't think you'd make a good Krsna. Have you read the Gita? *shudder*
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:46 pm (UTC)
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I saw one in the store yesterday, I totally could have bought one!
From:shizukagozen
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:48 pm (UTC)
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You can buy krsnas in stores these days? I want to collect the whole set now, damn you! ;D
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:10 pm (UTC)
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They come in several series. There's the ones in the orange sheets, the ones in the business suits, and the ones that wear pants. The accessories are where they really get you, though: you have to buy all the musical instruments seperately, the sandals never fit right, and the mantras. . . don't even get me started on the mantras! They're so expensive, and once you open the box, they don't shut up!
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From:ebonypearl
Date:December 29th, 2005 08:53 pm (UTC)
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I'm not sure where in the Vedas you are, but the most common grains in India are rice, millet, and oats. Mush is a ground grain that's been cooked in water until it's thick. Pap is a whole grain cooked in milk or water to extreme tenderness that is more liquid than mush. The "milk mess" is curds. I haven't a clue about the cake, unless they mean a grain baked or pressed into a cake form, like what we'd call a cracker or rice cake.
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:16 pm (UTC)
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About halfway through the RVB's (linked in the original post). I suppose I could look at where the Vedas were written, see what the common grains were back then, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the difficulty will be in picking which one of them is the right one. . . And this is where getting the right one is rather important.

*sighs* It's gonna be long nights over the Vedas for me, I'm afraid.
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:14 pm (UTC)
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I'm not sure how much help a modern book would be. I think I'm stuck with figuring it out from the Vedas themselves.
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From:shizukagozen
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:21 pm (UTC)
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But, the Vedas are not Indian and were not written in India. There is a possibility whatever is called for may not be Indian. Of course, there is the very same possibility that it is Indian. :)
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:43 pm (UTC)
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The caste system, or my understanding of it, is a Hindu phenomenon, I think. Vedic society appears to have had a class system.

The more I look at modern Hinduism, the less I'm convinced that it deals with anything remotely similar to the four Vedas. I was just reading about a number of minor deities the other night, and they're all major deities according to Hinduism. The world seems topsy-turvy to me, comparing the two faiths.

As for fires sacred to Agni, all fires are Agni. . . What makes one sacred to Agni?
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From:rfunk
Date:December 29th, 2005 10:27 pm (UTC)

Speaking of looking more at Hinduism and a topsy-turvy world...

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Ever read Lord of Light? :-)
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 10:31 pm (UTC)

Re: Speaking of looking more at Hinduism and a topsy-turvy world...

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Wow, I don't think I recognized a single deity name in that description :) Hinduism, I admit, is pretty far afield from my interests, but this book does look rather amusing.
From:shizukagozen
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:45 pm (UTC)
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As the post revolves around the Vedas, I thought it best to stick with the primary sources. I could easily quote post-Vedic texts, but do not see it as needed.

The vast majority of the Indian connection with the ancient Vedics is confined to Vedic words, most of which no longer have their original meaning, place in society/religion, or reason for being.

Modern India is far more influenced by its Dravidian roots and Buddhism, Jainism, and other Vedic off shoots. The caste system is not Vedic, the Vedas had a class system. Comparing modern and ancient society's and the religion's view on these two things (class and caste) show how little of Vedism's influence survives today.

The Vedas specifically explain how to build sacred fires and what to do should one go out. The difficulty with the sacrifices/oblations is that offerings may no longer exist or be impossible to gather. Thankfully, the early Brahmins had work-arounds so it is possible to create a fire to give an "authentic gift".
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From:fionnomurchu
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:03 pm (UTC)

Not being a Vedic scholar...

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...any Hindu temples nearby you? (You look like Arjuna with that bow, btw!)
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:12 pm (UTC)

Re: Not being a Vedic scholar...

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I'm not entirely sure that they'd be helpful here, as the Vedas pre-date Hinduism by a good amount. But I've thought of that, too. I just don't want to do something wrong and have my wife die, ya know?

(death of wife is the most common side-effect of an improperly done Vedic ritual, I understand. . .)
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From:fionnomurchu
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:17 pm (UTC)

Re: Not being a Vedic scholar...

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I'll remember that (scribbling furiously in my "not-to-do" list)
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:22 pm (UTC)

Re: Not being a Vedic scholar...

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*grins* Yes, I admit that I have an advantage in that I don't have a wife, but still, crazy consequences are to be avoided if possible :)
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From:unnamed525
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:39 pm (UTC)

Mmmmmmmmm

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Pap.
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:43 pm (UTC)

Re: Mmmmmmmmm

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PapPapPapPap!

It's a great word. . . And it's got a great beat!
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From:unnamed525
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:46 pm (UTC)

Re: Mmmmmmmmm

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Makes me think of soft, lovely female dangly bits.
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From:chronarchy
Date:December 29th, 2005 09:53 pm (UTC)

Re: Mmmmmmmmm

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That is another word for 'em :)
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From:dmartin
Date:December 30th, 2005 12:13 am (UTC)
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Imprecise instructions are annoying eh?

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