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Ár nDraíocht Féin
Three Cranes
Chaos Matrix

December 19th, 2006

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09:09 am - Amusement in the posting world, and timing
I am most amused when I think about writing a post to LJ, and then someone does something completely unrelated while I'm thinking about it, but what they did would make them think I was posting about their situation when really I'm just thinking out loud.

Ah, politics. How I love thee.

Some recent topics I've wanted to mention but that have been interrupted by people doing, asking, or learning something unrelated:
  • My hat.
  • Clegy confidentiality issues I've dealt with recently.
  • Vacations from people/things.
  • Clergy vocations and their nuances.
  • The clergy "job" and whose clergy I realized I am.
  • ADF elections, thinking about running for stuff I've been nominated for, and why.
  • Some discussion points from Saturnalia
All in all, nothing that's really inflammatory. Knowing, though, that formal complaints can (and have) originate from my LJ postings, and that people get their panties in a bunch if they think something is about them, I generally say, "Eh, screw it. Most people don't want to hear my thoughts on the subject anyway."

And it's not just here that timing gets messed up by what people say/do. When Tina and I were dating, she would occasionally make a comment about how she "never gets flowers" from me. The best way to ensure that you won't get something from me, I found, is to ask about it: because then, I feel like if I do get you flowers, you'll think I'm only doing it because you mentioned it.

And the funny thing was, it can make me turn around and change my plans entirely: if I was thinking about getting you flowers that night, woops! No more flowers for you! You'll know that I'm getting them out of guilt, even if I was planning for a week to bring you some that night. And I won't be able to talk my way out of it, either: you'll know that it was all about the guilt, not about the love.

I imagine that a lot of guys feel that way, and it happens quite often: guy who rarely gets his girl flowers or jewelry or something will get it into his head that it's time to do that, and just as he's about to do it, she'll say something to him, like "why don't you ever get me flowers?" and he'll think, "Well, I can't do it now!" And the cycle will repeat.

I would wonder if women go through the same thing, but I admit: I cannot conceive of it.

I suspect this is also why birthdays don't do a lot for me, and why I'm almost always late with Christmas/Yule cards. As the time approaches, I start to think, "Gee, they're going to expect this. I don't want to do it anymore." Once the time is passed, they might find themselves getting a very late card or present.
Current Location: Southeast of Disorder
Current Music: "Buttermilk Grove", -JB

(38 comments Leave a comment)


(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
Date:December 19th, 2006 03:50 pm (UTC)

Re: Send Imbolc cards and gifts. That's about what I wound up doing last year.

I will likewise promise that if it is about you, I'll tell you directly rather than post something here. :)
(Deleted comment)
[User Picture]
Date:December 19th, 2006 04:55 pm (UTC)
*nods* There's no satisfying the paranoids, of course.

--Lord Omar

1. Ye have locked yerselves up in cages of fear--and, behold, do ye now complain that ye lack FREEDOM!

2. Ye have cast out yer brothers for devils and now complain ye, lamenting that ye've been left to fight alone.

3. All Chaos was once yer kingdom; verily, held ye dominion over the entire Pentaverse, but today ye was sore afraid in dark corners, nooks, and sink holes.

4. O how the darknesses do crowd up, one against the other, in ye hearts! What fear ye more that what ye have wroughten?

5. Verily, verily I say unto you, not all the Sinister Ministers of the Bavarian Illuminati, working together in multitudes, could so entwine the land with tribulation as have yer baseless warnings.
Hey, the Principia is looking out for them: I don't have to.

But then, the journal, while it is for me, tends to be seen in a variety of amusing an entertaining ways. I am not unaware of how many people see it as a reflection of the general character of ADF: it's very visible. Of course, those who know me know not to take anything really seriously (but people do, anyway!), but a lot of the time when I'm just thinking out loud about stuff, people think I'm talking about ADF policy, or how things actually work. Really, thinking out loud is just one of my favourite things to do.

I suppose I could post all the things that led up to me writing a post, but every post would then be preceeded by a seven to eight-line-long paragraph about how I got onto this topic in the first place.

Regarding your panties: good to know :)

(Deleted comment)
Date:December 19th, 2006 04:42 pm (UTC)
Nothing to do with anything, but, just so you know...I've never seen a cockroach in real life. I think they're a myth.
[User Picture]
Date:December 19th, 2006 04:56 pm (UTC)
Not even in zoos? Weird. You are, though, lucky not to have been visited by St. Gulik late in the night, as you slept in the darkness seeking sweet dreams.
[User Picture]
Date:December 19th, 2006 05:46 pm (UTC)
Wait, so you're saying that your partners can't tell you what their needs/wants are??? That's just baffling.

Oh, and Mike, you never gave me SARS.

(ah, I'm safe now)
[User Picture]
Date:December 19th, 2006 06:10 pm (UTC)
Well, there goes your Christmas present. *sighs*

What I'm saying is not that they can't tell you what their needs are. What I'm saying is that my first thought when someone says, "You haven't given me flowers," is, "Well, if I give you flowers now, you'll think I'm doing it out of guilt."

Interestingly, this theory was confirmed for me once. I bought Tina some flowers from OrganicBouquet.com (special thanks to tlachtga for pointing me to the source in the first place), and the day after I ordered them, she said something like, "I never get any flowers."

At which point I distinctly remember thinking, "Shit, now what? They've already been shipped, and she's going to think I got them for her because I've been guilted into it." I honestly thought that my romantic gesture was going to be belittled by the fact that she had recently said something.

When she got them the next day, she called me in my office, thanking me for them. I said, "You know, after our conversation yesterday, I was afraid you'd think I got them for you because I felt guilty."

"Actually," she said, "that was my first thought."

"Good thing the shipping date proves it wasn't about guilt, isn't it?" I said, hopefully.

There was a moment, then she said, "Yes, good thing that's there," and laughed.

So, yeah: I have confirmed proof that at least some women think along those lines. And Tina's not all that uncommon of a woman when it comes to thought processes.

But if I'd been planning to buy the flowers that day? It never would have happened.
[User Picture]
Date:December 19th, 2006 09:46 pm (UTC)
I imagine that a lot of guys feel that way, and it happens quite often

Not just guys!!! I've dealt with this conundrum all of my life. From back when my mom would get upset about something I didn't do. I remember it vividly!!! You are NOT alone!

Take comfort in that as I prepare my documents requesting censure against you.

( evil - but 'concerned' - smile)
[User Picture]
Date:December 19th, 2006 09:48 pm (UTC)
I imagine that a lot of guys feel that way, and it happens quite often: guy who rarely gets his girl flowers or jewelry or something will get it into his head that it's time to do that, and just as he's about to do it, she'll say something to him, like "why don't you ever get me flowers?" and he'll think, "Well, I can't do it now!" And the cycle will repeat.

I would wonder if women go through the same thing, but I admit: I cannot conceive of it.

If you have no objections, I'd like to explore this a bit.

I remember as a child feeling exactly that way about my parents. "Well, I was going to do that on my own, but since you just told me to, that means that you think I wouldn't have. Since I can't reinforce that idea, I'm just not going to do it after all. So there!" I suspect most children, both boys and girls, feel that way. This is a generalization, but it seems that men tend to carry that attitude into romantic relationships, whereas women generally do not.

This is what I see as the dynamic:

Woman thinks, "I need a hug."
Woman says, "I need a hug."
Man hugs her.
Woman thinks, "How sweet. I expressed a need and he fulfilled it. He must really care about me."
Man thinks, "She just guilt-tripped me into hugging her. I would have done it anyway but she doesn't respect me. If she did, she would not have asked for a hug. Now she thinks I'm weak."
Man says, "I'm more likely to give you hugs or flowers if you don't ask me for them. When you ask me for them, I know you're just trying to guilt-trip me, and I won't let you win."
Woman thinks, "I need a hug. But if I ask him, he'll get angry at me and refuse to hug me. So he'll only be nice to me when the whim strikes him, and I'm supposed to wait quietly until it does and then be grateful. He must not really care about me after all."

To reframe the issue, let's suppose that you decided to write an epic poem in Latin to Esus for Esus Appreciation Day. One day you're walking along the Oval when suddenly a burning bush appears and says, "Michael! This is Esus. I want you to write an epic poem in Latin to me for Esus Appreciation Day." Would you say, "Well, gee, Esus, I was already planning to do that, but since you asked, I don't feel like doing it anymore"?

Just messing with your paradigm a bit. ;-)
Date:December 20th, 2006 04:03 am (UTC)
that conversation is about perfect to my thoughts many times.
[User Picture]
Date:December 20th, 2006 12:11 am (UTC)
You never get me tentacles!

[User Picture]
Date:December 20th, 2006 01:43 am (UTC)
Aw c'mon, why can't you talk about Saturnalia? *hmph* If not here, could you in my LJ? Or elsewhere?
[User Picture]
Date:December 20th, 2006 06:14 pm (UTC)
Oh, I can talk about Saturnalia, I just don't think I can talk about some things we talked about at Saturnalia :) But don't worry, I'll talk about the rite soon. I loved it far too much not to.
[User Picture]
Date:December 20th, 2006 07:51 am (UTC)
I'm usually completely oblivious that someone's making a remark directed towards me unless they say something like, "Hey Sharon, you dork! Stop doing X..." I think because I'm not paranoid or insecure.

Interestingly, I am currently dealing with someone who suddenly decides something's all about him when in fact it had nothing to do with him. I'm sure you & anyone here who reads my LJ knows exactly who I mean. (Have I mentioned my "Handbag" view on men to you before? The basic gist is that having a boyfriend is like a really cool purse-- nice to have but not exactly a necessity in my life.)

As for whether women follow the same thought process with the guilt thing, I know that I don't. Although I've never had a guy say, "You never get me flowers (or whatever)." Instead, my ex would say something like, "Why is it always me who washes the dishes?" In which case, I'd wash the dishes the next time he was at work just to show him that he didn't always wash them. :)

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