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Mel, your moralization is frightening. . . - Chronarchy

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February 12th, 2007


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01:09 pm - Mel, your moralization is frightening. . .
tesinth and I went to see Apocalypto at the dollar theatre yesterday. While the moral of the movie appears to be "Thank God the White Catholics showed up in time to save the noble savages," we found ourselves wondering:

Poll #925849 Poll 20: Let the shushing begin!

At what point may you speak during a movie in the theatre?

At any point, you may carry on a conversation.
0(0.0%)
At any point, but only short questions are allowed (e.g. "Who is that?" "What's he doing?" "Can you get me some Junior Mints?")
20(40.8%)
At any point, but only comments about the plot are allowed (e.g. "Dude!" "I knew it!" "That was cool!" or "Damn, she's hot!")
5(10.2%)
Only after the credits begin to roll.
7(14.3%)
Only after any sketches that play during the credits (e.g. people dancing, animated creatures telling jokes, gag reels)
0(0.0%)
Only after any ending material (e.g. extra scenes after credits)
1(2.0%)
Any time during the credits, unless sketches are occuring, but you have to be silent for ending material.
12(24.5%)
Only when the lights go up in the house.
4(8.2%)

At what point is the movie officially "over"?

When you get up to leave.
8(16.7%)
When the credits begin to roll.
10(20.8%)
When the credits begin to roll, unless there are sketches or something to watch while they roll.
7(14.6%)
After all sketches or ending material (e.g. scenes at the very end, after the credits).
10(20.8%)
When the lights go up at the very end of the film.
13(27.1%)


You see, during the credits, while tesinth and I were trying to make heads or tails of the movie (and failing on both counts, aside from to say, "Well, it's a good thing those white Catholics eventually showed up to fix the problem, isn't it?"), we were "shushed" by an old guy who informed us, "Excuse me, the movie isn't over yet." This was well more than half-way through the credits, which have no vocalization, and honestly, aren't any fun to watch (the only reason we were still there was because I was looking for an ASPCA certification. . . which of course wasn't there. . . I suspect a number of animals were harmed in the making of this movie).

This of course, led us to sit through the rest of the credits in silence, and then ask each other if the movie was over and if we were allowed to speak now that the house lights had gone up.

Centrally, tesinth and I would have been happy to be quiet, if he'd said something like, "Guys, we're listening to the music. Would you mind staying quiet until the credits are finished?" But he informed us that the movie was still going on instead, as if we were somehow unaware that the credits were running. His tone of voice was also extremely condescending. It would have been nice to have been asked to be quiet, rather than tell us that we were punk kids because we didn't understand his definition of the end of the film.

So now, I find myself curious, which is why I noted the poll above.

Also, this movie is apparently not about Mayans at all, but Aztecs. I ended up even more confused when I realized that.

And btw, I expect that the "moral of the story" listed above isn't a spoiler. It was, merely, the final conclusion I drew from this movie, much like "Christ wasn't a savior, he was a magician" was the conclusion I drew from Passion. If you see the movie and determine that I did, indeed, somehow spoil the ending with that comment, I grant you permission to post most venomously on my LJ in retaliation.
Current Location: Southeast of Disorder
Current Mood: curiouscurious
Current Music: "Why Don't We Get Drunk and Screw", -JB

(27 comments Leave a comment)

Comments:


(Deleted comment)
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From:chronarchy
Date:February 12th, 2007 06:49 pm (UTC)
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It sure is. And, as I mentioned, there wasn't anything but some weired, ambient music going on during the credits, which is the only point that we spoke to each other.
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From:singingwren
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:12 pm (UTC)

objection

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You didn't have a choice for "You may speak any time during the movie if the movie is Ultraviolet." I was dissatisfied with your poll.
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From:chronarchy
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:23 pm (UTC)

Re: objection

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Objection?

Wanna fight about this?

Bring it.
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From:singingwren
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:28 pm (UTC)

Re: objection

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ROFL, I'd contaminate you with my hemophage blood if I hadn't already invested a substantial amount of money in the pet mice you are giving me....
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From:ns_kumiho
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:18 pm (UTC)
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You didn't have "At any point, as long as it is MST3King a horrible movie"... =P
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From:chronarchy
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:33 pm (UTC)
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Ah, but is that appropriate in the theatre?

:)

This is why there are comments, though: so that I don't have to think of all possibilities :) Thanks :)
(Deleted comment)
From:gothicsquish
Date:February 16th, 2007 12:19 am (UTC)
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at a dollar theature, sure. LOL
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From:nontacitare
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:22 pm (UTC)
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Sorry, but you absolutely have a right to talk during the credits.

I wanted to see Apocalypto, but never got around to it. From trailers and reviews it did seem a bit...anachronistic.
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From:chronarchy
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:27 pm (UTC)
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I did some research after I posted, mostly because I was sure I must have misread the sites and the advertisements. But, it's listed everywhere (including the official site) that this is all about the Mayans.

But after watching it, it's *obvious* that it's about the Aztecs. The first time I saw the architecture, I was floored. I'm like, "That's not Mayan architecture! That's Aztec!"

And, of course, there were other anachronisms that stood out like sore thumbs, but to describe those might be a bit spoilerish, I suppose.

The thing that got me, though, was the girl who appeared to have smallpox before European contact.
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From:dmartin
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:31 pm (UTC)
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My immediate interpretation of the arrival of the Catholics at the end of Apocalypto was "Now they're REALLY screwed". I'm was also certain it was supposed to be about Mayans, but Mayans that act a lot like Aztecs.

I think he was in the wrong to shush you like that. Once the credits start rolling, talking is fair game IMHO.

I haven't watched the Passion. Too similar to a snuff film from what I've heard about it.
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From:chronarchy
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:37 pm (UTC)
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Interesting. I saw their arrival as indicating that the Spanish Catholics were somehow "saving" the noble savage, while being the "beginning of the end" of the savage savages, in that "Oh, those (Mayan) Aztecs really deserve what's coming off those boats!"

After all, their arrival makes everything "better" for the noble savage, Jaguar Paw.

And yeah, Passion pretty much is a snuff film. But the biggest injustice there is that Mel had all that Monica Bellucci and he covered her in unflattering clothes!
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From:dmartin
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:47 pm (UTC)
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Oh I'm sure it's more likely Mel intended it to be understood that way. The Spanish idea of "saving the noble savage" turned out to be pretty sodding brutal. Actually, that should give Mel ideas for Apocalypto 2: The Aftermath...

Tsk tsk. I'm sure there's some law about forcing Italians into substandard clothing.
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From:mzwyndi
Date:February 12th, 2007 07:55 pm (UTC)
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Well, now, to be fair... the movie isn't LITERALLY "over" until the lights go up at the very end.

But.

Seriously.

Gimme a break.

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From:tesinth
Date:February 12th, 2007 10:04 pm (UTC)
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Well, as I mentioned on the way back to the car, I didn't think that the point was implicitly that the white man was there to save them, but I could see how this can be interpreted.

Adding to that is the huge point being made that the Mayans are "Noble Savages" and the Aztecs are "Savage-savages", i.e. evil. Hell, it felt like I was watching something a conquistador (or, more precisly, something that one fo the monks that traveled with them) wrote. This can be a much more convincing arguement if plot details could be summarized here, but since I see a few people here haven't seen it yet (and want to), I'll stay quite. Before we were silenced for being so darn rude, I made the comment that we should remake this movie with the Aztec characters as the "good guys" (and the Mayans as bad, it'll be way too easy to have the conquistadors be the bad guys).

In regards to the whole Aztec/Mayan thing, I was informed that it was about Mayans. When we were first shown the Aztec characters, I thought, ok, perhaps these are Aztec-influenced Mayans, but it was frickin' clear that their main city was a huge Aztec urban and spiritual center, the Mayans had nothing close to this at all, either in scale or style. And while it wouldn't be far fetched at all to say that the Aztecs had contact with the Mayans, certain spacial events that happen in the movie would be very impossible...

It is certainly a Mel movie though, that guy must get off on fake blood or something...
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From:nontacitare
Date:February 13th, 2007 12:05 am (UTC)
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In regards to the whole Aztec/Mayan thing, I was informed that it was about Mayans. When we were first shown the Aztec characters, I thought, ok, perhaps these are Aztec-influenced Mayans, but it was frickin' clear that their main city was a huge Aztec urban and spiritual center

I thought the language of the movie was Yucatec Mayan (one of the reasons I want to see it.) But it does sound like they got a lot wrong.

By the way, spoilers don't bother me.
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From:tesinth
Date:February 13th, 2007 12:08 am (UTC)
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Well, that was another thing that bothered me about the movie, both groups of Mayans (or whatever) seemed to speak the same language (which the actors struggled with, especially the young ones). You'd think that if they shared the same language, the captives would know what was going to happen to them when captured (or at least be aware that people wanted to capture them).
From:snakesinspace
Date:February 13th, 2007 01:37 am (UTC)
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A movie is over when the lights go on. That's why they go on. One would think that someone who has studied rituals and the cues used in them would understand that. ;D

The fact is, most people get up when the credits start rolling and leave the theater. For those of us odd souls (such as myself and my husband) who like to stay and watch the credits we should be able to do so in peace.

This does not mean no one else should talk-- but if you are next to one of us who are still enjoying the movie it would be polite to not talk. Expecting us to have to explain why (examples: we're listening to the music, we're looking for a familiar name, we want to find out the name of a song used, we're paying homage to all the people who worked hard on the movie by sitting through the part with their names, or whatever) is arrogant.

Imagine attending a ritual and at the closing song several people start talking about the ritual as if it was over. It ain't over 'till its over.

The results in this poll are exactly why I do not go to the theater anymore-- at no time during the movie is talking acceptable (unless you are at one of the baby friendly showings where they set it up so parents can bring their infants in), even to ask little questions.

It is a theater, not your living room.
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From:rfunk
Date:February 13th, 2007 05:17 am (UTC)

Lights vs credits

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"A movie is over when the lights go on.... The fact is, most people get up when the credits start rolling and leave the theater."

In my experience, the lights usually go on when the credits start rolling. And most people get up to leave then. I usually like to stay through the credits though, and possibly even talk, but by the time the credits are finishing the theater employees tend to be looking at me like I'm in their way.
From:snakesinspace
Date:February 13th, 2007 05:32 am (UTC)

Re: Lights vs credits

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And in mine the lights come on when the credits are done.
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From:wishesofastar
Date:February 14th, 2007 05:12 pm (UTC)
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Word.
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From:smithing_chick
Date:February 13th, 2007 02:45 am (UTC)
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"There's a special hell reserved for murderers & people who talk at the theater."-- Shepard Book, in Firefly (Our Mrs. Reynolds, if I remember correctly)

I'm OK with quiet, ocassional questions during a film- I can ignore murmurs & such. Constant comments of "Does anyone understand what's going on here?" are harder to ignore- as is text messaging your friends, especially if your phone has blinking flashing lights. Talking during credits sometimes bothers me, sometimes not. I tend to be OK with it if the talk is about the movie itself- I've got into some good discussions about a movie with people near me as a result. But as a rule- general chit-chat is for when the lights are up.

By the way, I am a serious credit watcher. The bf isn't but is adjusting. He & I had fun trying to figure out which people were what in Pan's Labarynth- "Any idea what the Spanish for 'grip' is?" But then, we weren't disturbing anyone because we were the only ones watching the credits.
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From:lisbet
Date:February 13th, 2007 04:05 am (UTC)
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Rod and I are credit watchers too. But if we talk during them, it's usually about the credits themselves (usually speculating about where it was filmed, or who did what song, etc., or "Wasn't that so and so, in such and such role? I'm sure it was!"). Even though we talk softly, I'll have to keep a closer eye on anyone else around us next time and see if they are talking too, or watching in silence. I wouldn't want to spoil their movie experience by talking too loudly. I imagine it could be quite distracting if you had just enjoyed a film and were watching the credits for whatever info was meaningful to you, and the people sitting nearby started talking very loudly. Common courtesy is really the thing to keep in mind. Now, you obviously didn't know the old guy was enjoying or studying the credits, but he didn't have to be condescending to you either. People have been quite testy lately, I've noticed. Must be something in the air...

The movie sounds intriguing. I've studied the Mayans and Aztecs a bit in the past, but I probably won't go to see it if you think the ASPCA wasn't involved (and apparently needed to be, it sounds like). I guess I'll just stick to my books.
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From:chironcentaur
Date:February 13th, 2007 04:49 am (UTC)
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I can't stand people who talk during a movie (or leave their cell phones on, have screaming children with them, or are making any sort of prolonged and distracting noise). Its the kind of thing that makes me want to throw something large and heavy at your head. If I spend some ungodly amount of money for the pleasure of watching this on the big screen I damn well better be able to enjoy it, and I can't enjoy it if the only thing I can hear is you. This is one of the reason I prefer to go to the theaters on a weekday early afternoon when at all possible, far less people (though I'm also fortunate in that I hate most things that are popular).

But during the credits. Even I'm not that crazy. :-P

I kind of wanted to see Apolcalypto. In that I wouldn't go out of my way to watch it, but wouldn't pass it by if the opportunity came my way. Not worth seeing then?
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From:duriyah
Date:February 14th, 2007 03:57 pm (UTC)

Two answers

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If your poll had allowed two answers, I would have said short questions during the movie AND any conversation during the credits are fine. I'm also one of those weirdos who likes watching credits. I dont' mind if other people have conversations around me during the credits, but during the credits I only talk about the credits themselves. Most people get up and leave during the credits, so I don't see what that guy's deal was.
From:gothicsquish
Date:February 16th, 2007 12:23 am (UTC)
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I hadn't gone to that movie because I feared just such an ending. And I had been told it was about Mayans. I wonder if Mel's been told he got it wrong, since he seems to like to be "acurate"

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