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February 25th, 2009


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10:54 am - Gatekeepers, CTP work, and kicks in the ass. . .
A post by [info]Ceisiwr Serith has me thinking about Vedic gatekeepers today, particularly on the process of what makes one fire agni and another one pu? Is it Vac, and the word you use to refer to the fire that makes it what it is, or is it the intent held at the kindling of the flame?

I'm leaning a lot more toward the verbalization of the "good fire" than I am toward the internalization of the intent. Intent is all well and good for chaotes and fluff bunnies, but it doesn't actually cause reality shifts in ritual.

This, of course, has led me back to a conversation I had with romandruid regarding a Vedic blessing rite. I gotta get that written.

At some point or another, I'll need to talk the Grove into doing a Vedic rite. . . for something. I suspect that means bringing it up at a meeting sometime.

Right now, I'm sure you've noticed that I'm pretty darn far behind on my CTP 2 goals. The week-and-a-half-long internet outage in January affected my ability to work on CTP stuff, and I just haven't caught up. I'm approaching a half-month overdue to finish the darn thing, and I just can't get back on track.

I need a kick in the ass. Then I'll probably need another one. Maybe a third as well. That's a good Druidic number, right?
Current Location: Southeast of Disorder
Current Mood: disappointeddisappointed
Current Music: "The Wino and I Know", -JB

(14 comments Leave a comment)

Comments:


[User Picture]
From:chronarchy
Date:February 25th, 2009 04:38 pm (UTC)
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I dunno. I suspect you could verbalize something other than your intent. But the point is that intent without voice (speaking purely in terms of Vedic sacrifice, I ought to add) doesn't do a thing, most likely. You gotta say it, I think, for the intent to manifest.
[User Picture]
From:dubhlainn
Date:February 26th, 2009 06:03 am (UTC)
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I have to wonder though that you one can verbalize in a ritual sense without intention?

The two ideas seem very inter-related to me.
[User Picture]
From:chronarchy
Date:February 26th, 2009 02:40 pm (UTC)
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Of course you can. There are old magical texts (I'll have to get you a citation at home, if you want one, but I believe it's mentioned in both Magic in the Ancient World and Arcana Mundi) which mention that verbalizing random syllables can cause problems, because they might be the names of gods that you are calling without realizing it.

A similar notion occurs in Icelandic lore, where a boy carves runes trying to help a woman (so he's got intent), but he uses the wrong runes, and his intent is overridden by the formed word that is created.

  No man should carve runes
  unless he can read them well;
  many a man goes astray
  around those dark letters.
  On the whalebone I saw
  ten secret letters carved,
  from them the linden tree
  took her long harm.
      -Egil's Saga, chapter 73

In the IE world, formed words, intentional or not, have great power. . . certainly greater power than the intent itself does, I think.

Edited at 2009-02-26 02:41 pm (UTC)
[User Picture]
From:dubhlainn
Date:February 26th, 2009 08:12 pm (UTC)
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OK, I will grant that verbalization without intent exists in IE mythology but my experience does not match that.

I am not as trained or studied in magic as you are, I wonder if that accounts for our different viewpoints? Curious.
[User Picture]
From:chronarchy
Date:February 26th, 2009 09:05 pm (UTC)
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It may. It may also be a different sort of training: I draw most of my knowledge of magic from ancient sources, which affects my experiences. . . My world, I admit, is populated very similarly to the world of an ancient magician. I do think that there are things out there who will respond to random syllables. . . most modern magicians probably don't.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that the various Necronomicii can take one on a heck of a wild ride. . . most dismiss it out of hand.

Heh. Maybe I'm just dumber than everyone else ;)

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