Thanks for posting this. What's Discipline 1 and 2? I haven't seen those before. Also, would current students be under the old course or the new one?

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They're new courses. They should have been marked with *, but I forgot. Fixed that.

They are the courses that introduce the spiritual discipline requirements (I may re-name them "Spiritual Discipline 1,2,3" I'm starting to think), one per level. Each one will develop a deeper commitment and involve more time, but when combined with the notion that people can cease their advancement after CTP1 and just maintain their work through continuing with the discipline for that level, it makes it less of an issue.

Right now, the recommendations are pretty simple for those courses. I've listed suggested requirements of keeping the 8 High Days at the home shrine, consecrating and working with a particular set of tools, some Earth Mother and Gatekeeper work, and an expiation rite that the student can do on their own for if (or when) their practice lapses. Discipline 2 has some clergy-specific stuff in it that "stacks" onto Discipline 1 (so you have to do both courses at the same time), and Discipline 3 stacks on both 1 and 2.

My current recommendation is that a completed circle is a completed circle, though some additional CTP 1 courses may be required over time from existing Dedicant Priests (to make good on the notion that we are supplying "complete priests"), and that current students should have a three year window to either complete the current program or move to the revisions, starting whenever the revision is officially released.

But discipline requirements, because they are related to what a Priest (or Priest-in-training) does, will be recommended as required of all students.

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See above: it shouldn't affect anyone on the current plan. I've divided my recommendations into "primary" and "secondary," and "don't screw up the current students" is on the "primary" list.

With the exception noted above for the discipline courses.

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Not if you were to switch to the revised program. If you stay on the current CTP, you would need to do it.

That is, of course, assuming that the program remains as I've presented it here. This is just a recommended outline.

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Som will the pre-training courses be a part of the GSP then, or do you have to submit intent to enroll for CTP, or something like that?

Also, I find it interesting that Trance 1 and Magic 2 are not in the same section, since there is a cross-over requirement. You could always move Magic 1 to the Pre-CTP courses. The advantage of that would be to introduce the student to the views of magic in the IE cultures pre-Div 1, and you could even add a requirement about magical acts in liturgical settings (such as Gate Opening and Waters and why they are considered magical acts).

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There are some dependencies that need to be checked, but Trance 2 and Magic 2 could work as a crossover requirement just as well as Trance 1 and Magic 2.

Some will be GSP. But adding in non-GSP courses means that you need to intentionally start working toward the CTP on your own. I don't see any formal "intent" thing, because the aim is to get away from people finishing the DP and sort of "direct enrolling" in the CTP.

I also don't want to make CTP 1 a sort of "GSP-lite," and make it too difficult for people to work through. I just want people to have a bit of intent.

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Would that mean a change in the exit standards for Trance 1? As it stands, the crossover journal specifically states "Trance 1 and Magic 2." This is the main reason I've not done Trance 1 yet, despite my need of trance training: I've not completed Magic 1 yet.

I guess my real question is whether or not it is required to do a crossover journal? I assumed you couldn't turn in Trance 1 (or Magic 2 for that matter) until the crossover requirement was complete. If it is acceptable to separate them, perhaps the wording of the exit standard could state as such, such as the simple addition or "optional but recommended."

As it is written now, the exit standard for Trance 1 says:

"9. (Crossover Requirement) Keep a journal for five months detailing the trance work that you have done. Write an essay based off those journals that examines your practice over the time you journaled. In this essay, explain how you can apply the trance work to divination, magic, and other workings you do in ritual and personally. Entries occurring less than weekly will not count toward completion of this requirement. Your journal must include work from the exercises found in the support material for this course. [This requirement matches up with Req. 3 in Magic 2] (min. 1000 words)"

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You can do two separate journals, but we put them together so that you could use the same journal if you chose (and thus reduce the amount of time necessary to complete the course.

Re-shuffling the courses may require some re-writes on requirements. Students who have passed a course should not have to re-pass it, obviously, nor would students in the middle of a course be required to change to new requirements (so long as they submitted before a stated date, probably a year or so later).

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I wish we had another really long car ride sometime this summer to discuss some of these ideas (and others) in great detail. I still have the sense that the program is becoming imbalanced in favor of the esoteric -- at the expense of personal spiritual grounding. There are different kinds of communities and different kinds of spiritual leaders; seems like only one kind is important anymore. That's been a trend I've seen over the past few years, though, and it seems like a train that's roaring down a track I'm not on, so maybe it's just none of my business anymore. *shrug*

FWIW, I'd I think Liturgy Practicum I (domestic practice) is one of the very first things to do after completing the DP.

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I wish for that, too!

That would be a good thing to consider moving to the pre-CTP bit, and I agree with your assessment. On the other hand, I also want to ensure they "get" liturgy before they start the Practicum. Maybe the two courses just need to be combined somehow. . .

After all, one can't get it if they aren't doin' it.

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